Doom Info (re-post)

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Eos
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Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Eos » November 8th, 2016, 12:21 am

The following post was made on the old forums in reply to questions about the Doom points system after it was first introduced. The information is accurate for the current Doom points system at the time of this re-post.
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I will try to make this post as complete as possible, to answer all the questions posed in this thread.

Let me begin by clarifying that our point system was designed to introduce the mechanism of guaranteed drops, not to increase drop rates to OSI levels. The huge increase in drop rate that happened on OSI is a thing on its own, and it was highly contested at the time. I honestly believe their developers did not intend for such a drastic increase, but that's not relevant for Demise.

As also mentioned before in other threads, the average gain in Doom is still very much like the old drop rate. Drops have simply gotten a higher chance of occurring at regular intervals. Our point system can be seen as a normalization of the drop intervals.

We've been monitoring Doom artifact drops for a little over a month now. From May 18 to June 18, we had a total of 170 Doom artifacts spawn. That's an average of 5.48 per day, or about 38 a week. That means there's an ornament of the magician being spawned every week. (And indeed, in that period, 5 ornaments of the magician spawned.)

When comparing this to OSI, yes, this drop rate is indeed too low. However, if everyone was able to obtain all their desired Doom artifacts within a day, there would soon be no point in keeping Doom around at all. The server would be flooded with them. This also goes for Treasures of Tokuno, which is not enabled permanently for the same reason.

OSI must've realized this somewhere along the way, which is why you can see later expansions adding back rarer and better artifacts, with drop rates similar to the old Doom rates. (The Stygian Dragon and Medusa artifacts, for example.) Every game needs its "diamond ore".

This is why I believe that OSI drop rates are a bad idea. You may want that ornament of the magician now, but when you're getting one daily and struggle to even sell them, the whole system becomes irrelevant.

Now, I don't make decisions based solely on my own views. I'm willing to experiment with the Doom point gains to find a healthy value for the shard, which is why we'll begin awarding double points after this coming server wars. The point rewards may increase, or decrease, based on the observed drops after that.

For those wondering about the internal workings of the Doom point system, I will explain how the system that is currently active operates. (Beware, technical mumbo jumbo ahead.)

The system is based on the pseudo-random distribution, which is used and documented for other games as well (one such link). It works by increasing your chance with every roll, so that eventually the chance becomes so high that a successful roll is inevitable.

The accumulated chance starts at 0, and your chance increases are much lower than the projected average success chance, which makes it unlikely to get a successful roll early on. Similarly, after some time, the accumulated chance becomes sufficiently high that not getting a successful roll becomes unlikely. The result is that successful rolls are more likely to happen at similar intervals, rather than all over the place. (Which isn't actually truly random, but more "comfortably random".)

Getting down to the specific system in place on Demise, every player character has a "total points" value which starts at 0. When killing a gauntlet monster, the total points from that monster are divided over all players with loot rights as follows:

Code: Select all

points = totalPoints * ( 1 / totalPlayers ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
The total points from the monster are scaled by the number of players with loot rights, as well as the portion of damage that a player dealt. This may seem odd, as it appears to be scaling twice for the number of people present (1/3 of players and 1/3 of damage for example). The fact that the point system adds these points to everyone's individual system makes up for this, and through simulation one can see that this maintains the division of chance present in the old system.

The luck modifier is a bit more complicated, and it is based on the GetLuckChance() calculation used for increased loot and such:

Code: Select all

luckMod = luckChance / 8500

luckChance = luck^( 1 / 1.8 ) * 100
Wearing 2500 luck, for example, results in a luckChance of about 7,722 (which for loot would mean a 77.22% chance of a bonus property/item), which results in a luckMod of about 0.9, which results in a 3.6x modifier for your point gain.

After the points are updated on all players, a roll is made for each player where the total accumulated points represents a chance out of 100. When one player's roll is successful, the system stops rolling. This happens so that only one artifact can drop per monster (but everyone gets points). On a successful roll, the player is awarded a random artifact and their points are reset to 0.

Because the roll is out of 100, this means that once you've collected 100 points, a roll is guaranteed to succeed. (Unless someone rolls successfully for the artifact before you do, but then their points will reset and you will likely win the next roll.) In practice, however, people never reach 100 points. Most people receive an artifact at 0.3-0.7 accumulated points.

In the observed Doom drops from May 18 to June 18, 118 drops (70%) occurred before reaching 0.7 accumulated points, 148 drops (87%) occurred before reaching 1.0 points, and the highest point accumulation one person got was 2.27.

The total number of points a monster gives is different for Dark Fathers than the rest of the mobs:

Code: Select all

DF totalPoints = 9.0 / 128 (old value was 9.0 / 256*)

other totalPoints = 9.0 / 512 (old value was 9.0 / 1024*)

*Points were doubled June 2014.
DFs do indeed give 4x as many points as other mobs do. On average, though, this still leads to only a double drop chance because of the nature of the distribution.

These values may seem quite arbitrary. They were decided upon through simulation of the system for different values. Using these matches the system very closely to the old drop chances (only slightly higher), for various luck values and player counts.

The above specifications should allow anyone to simulate the system completely.

I don't expect many people to read this post in its entirely, but if you, %i, are one of those people, then I salute you. Any further questions will have to wait until my keyboard recharges with ink.
Eos
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Please do not PM me for general support.
If you are experiencing game issues please page for a staff member in-game.

Thank you for your continued support of UOG: Demise.

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LUDENS
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by LUDENS » November 8th, 2016, 12:37 am

"Any further questions will have to wait until my keyboard recharges with ink." haha. Great read!
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Ajani » November 8th, 2016, 1:20 am

[quote="Eos"]118 drops (70%) occurred before reaching 0.7 accumulated points[quote]
on average how long does it take a mage to achieve 0.7 accumulated points?
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Tarekk
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Tarekk » November 8th, 2016, 8:05 pm

do my points reset upon logout or when leaving doom?

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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Bama » November 8th, 2016, 8:42 pm

Tarekk wrote:do my points reset upon logout or when leaving doom?
Neither
They reset after you get your arti.................
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by DM3 » November 9th, 2016, 1:59 am

The dragon slayer I just got says no, they do not reset until you get your arty
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EV
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by EV » January 31st, 2017, 11:02 am

Does the luck chance only effect the top damager or does it effect every individual damager? From what I understand every individual damager gains a bonus from wearing luck. Is this true?
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Dyl » May 17th, 2017, 3:37 am

glad we have Eos :)
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Kaos91 » May 17th, 2017, 9:53 am

EOS are Great! :)
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wasq
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by wasq » May 18th, 2017, 9:43 am

And perfection from bushido? Is this only luck bonus for whoever honored the target?

Btw thanks for the info! I had my first run in DOOM 2 with my great suit with whole 280 luck! I managed to honor half of the targets and after 25 runs I lost my mind and left without the arti and I was a little bit worried that my points reset after I leave the dungeon
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The Silvertiger
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by The Silvertiger » May 18th, 2017, 1:33 pm

Yes, for the one honoring target as far as the points go. The luck does apply to the loot if the honorer is the top damage.
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by wasq » May 18th, 2017, 2:58 pm

Sorry I don´t know if I understood. So perfection = 1000 luck for guy who´s honoring - doesn´t matter if he did top DMG = more points. But what does this mean? There is some luck calculation for player who did most dmg?
The Silvertiger wrote:The luck does apply to the loot if the honorer is the top damage.

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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by The Silvertiger » May 18th, 2017, 3:30 pm

wasq wrote:Sorry I don´t know if I understood. So perfection = 1000 luck for guy who´s honoring - doesn´t matter if he did top DMG = more points. But what does this mean? There is some luck calculation for player who did most dmg?
The Silvertiger wrote:The luck does apply to the loot if the honorer is the top damage.
Ok, so luck in doom effects 2 things: points and loot.

Points:
As long as the player gets looting rights the luck multiplies the points obtained.

Loot:
The player has to be the top damager for his luck to effect his loot/everyone's loot.
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by wasq » July 3rd, 2017, 1:06 pm

After last few days in Gauntlet (and drop of 3 useless arties) I just opened this topic and want to ask some supplementary questions.

So if I get it right, numbers "other totalPoints = 9.0 / 512" means that with 0 luck I get 9 points when killing one of 5 lesser bosses SOLO so I need to kill 512 / 9 ≈ 57 (≈ 20 with my luck and perfection) bosses to have 100% chance to drop arti and 128 / 9 ≈ 14 DFs to have 100% to drop from him? So there are 2 different set of points for lesser bosses and DF?

I know this is not important, but I like the math and I´m trying to count probability here and I think I´m missing something, because I´m absolutely sure that I did more then 2-3 rounds solo before the arti drop.
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin » August 28th, 2017, 1:01 am

the points system is not to replace the random chance of drops in doom, it is just to make sure the longer you spend in there, the more chance you have.

using arbitrary numbers:
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it solo, you get 100 points
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it with 2 people, the number of points is halved to 50, because in theory you are killing it twice as fast.
of this 50 points, if one person did 4/5ths of the damage to it, they get 40 points, and the person who did 1/5th of the damage gets 10 points.

some extra points are added for the persons luck.

this is why it annoys me when you almost finish a boss, and someone runs over to get loot rights on the last 10% of its hp. yes they get a chance at drop, but they also half the points the boss is worth, and they get hardly any of them anyway cos they did crap damage.

if you see a boss almost dead, let the people killing it finish it plz.
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