Doom Info (re-post)

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Arden
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Arden »

Calvin wrote:the points system is not to replace the random chance of drops in doom, it is just to make sure the longer you spend in there, the more chance you have.

using arbitrary numbers:
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it solo, you get 100 points
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it with 2 people, the number of points is halved to 50, because in theory you are killing it twice as fast.
of this 50 points, if one person did 4/5ths of the damage to it, they get 40 points, and the person who did 1/5th of the damage gets 10 points.

some extra points are added for the persons luck.

this is why it annoys me when you almost finish a boss, and someone runs over to get loot rights on the last 10% of its hp. yes they get a chance at drop, but they also half the points the boss is worth, and they get hardly any of them anyway cos they did crap damage.

if you see a boss almost dead, let the people killing it finish it plz.

This is not correct.

Go read the thread that has the math.
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Vitek-
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Vitek- »

i got a voice of the fallen king out of there the other day

got close to cutting

didnt cut though
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

lemme check my math lol

sorry i re-posted below, made a couple lil mistakes ^.^'
Last edited by Calvin on September 7th, 2017, 9:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Bad Religion
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Bad Religion »

Calvin wrote:
Arden wrote:
Calvin wrote:the points system is not to replace the random chance of drops in doom, it is just to make sure the longer you spend in there, the more chance you have.

using arbitrary numbers:
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it solo, you get 100 points
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it with 2 people, the number of points is halved to 50, because in theory you are killing it twice as fast.
of this 50 points, if one person did 4/5ths of the damage to it, they get 40 points, and the person who did 1/5th of the damage gets 10 points.

some extra points are added for the persons luck.

this is why it annoys me when you almost finish a boss, and someone runs over to get loot rights on the last 10% of its hp. yes they get a chance at drop, but they also half the points the boss is worth, and they get hardly any of them anyway cos they did crap damage.

if you see a boss almost dead, let the people killing it finish it plz.

This is not correct.

Go read the thread that has the math.

i think it is...
"The total points from the monster are scaled by the number of players with loot rights, as well as the portion of damage that a player dealt. This may seem odd, as it appears to be scaling twice for the number of people present (1/3 of players and 1/3 of damage for example). The fact that the point system adds these points to everyone's individual system makes up for this, and through simulation one can see that this maintains the division of chance present in the old system."
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

Arden wrote:
Calvin wrote:the points system is not to replace the random chance of drops in doom, it is just to make sure the longer you spend in there, the more chance you have.

using arbitrary numbers:
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it solo, you get 100 points
if a boss is worth 100 points and you kill it with 2 people, the number of points is halved to 50, because in theory you are killing it twice as fast.
of this 50 points, if one person did 4/5ths of the damage to it, they get 40 points, and the person who did 1/5th of the damage gets 10 points.

some extra points are added for the persons luck.

this is why it annoys me when you almost finish a boss, and someone runs over to get loot rights on the last 10% of its hp. yes they get a chance at drop, but they also half the points the boss is worth, and they get hardly any of them anyway cos they did crap damage.

if you see a boss almost dead, let the people killing it finish it plz.

This is not correct.

Go read the thread that has the math.

i think it is...


points = totalPoints * ( 1 / totalPlayers ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2

if total points = 100.

points granted = 100 * ( 1 / totalPlayers ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2

if 2 players

points granted = 100 * ( 1 / 2 ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
points granted = 50 * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2

if player damage = 1000 and monster health = 10,000
points granted = 50 * ( 1000 / 10000 ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
points granted = 50 * ( 1 / 10 ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
points granted = 50 * 0.1 * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
points granted = 5 * ( 1 + luckMod )^2

if 1000 luck
luckMod = luckChance / 8500
luckChance = luck^( 1 / 1.8 ) * 100

luckMod = luckChance / 8500
luckChance = 1000^0.56 * 100

luckMod = luckChance / 8500
luckChance = 4641.59

luckMod = 4641.59 / 8500

luckMod = 0.546

points granted = 5 * ( 1 + 0.546 )^2
points granted = 5 * ( 1.546 )^2
points granted = 5 * 2.39
points granted = 11.95


IF THERE IS 1 PERSON:

points = totalPoints * ( 1 / totalPlayers ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2

total points for boss still = 100
total players now = 1
and total damage now = 10000

points granted = 100 * ( 1 / 1 ) * ( 10000 / 10000) * ( 1 + 0.546 )^2
points granted = 100 * 1 * 1 * 2.39
points granted = 100 * 2.39
points granted = 239

this makes sense when you consider the monster is worth 2x the points, and the guy has done 10x the damage.

11.95 * 10 = 119
119 * 2 = 240

in the case with 2 players attacking the boss, the other guy has done 9000 of the 10,000 health, so he will get:
119(total monster points value divided by 2, because 2 people)-11.95 (the points the other guy got for doing one tenth of the monsters hp) points.
can work that one out too if you want

points granted = 100 * ( 1 / 2 ) * ( 9000 / 10000) * ( 1 + 0.546 )^2
points granted = 50 * 0.9 * 2.39
points granted = 45 * 2.39
points granted = 107.55

107.55 (points the 9000/10000 guy got) + 11.95 (points the 1000/10000 guy got) = 119.5

119.5 * 2 = 239 (exactly the same points as if you solo)

the total points a monster gives is divided by the number of players because in theory the bosses are dying twice or three times as fast, this keep the overall drop rate fairly close to the old amount and stops the server being flooded with artifacts
Last edited by Calvin on September 9th, 2017, 3:04 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

if you see a boss almost dead, let the people killing it finish it plz.

+if you are halving the points a boss is worth, you should really be carrying your own weight and the boss should be dying twice as fast ;)
if the other guy is doing 90% of the damage, he is getting 90% of the points, but the total points are halved just because of the number of players attacking it

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note: the bosses still all have a base drop chance which is not based on points, the points only add like 0.01% drop chance.
so after like 6 hours you'll have got +1% to your chance or something like that. but that is plenty to get a drop. normal chance is rly low, like 0.3% or something (i am making these numbers up, but it gives you an idea of how it works)
Eos wrote:
Because the roll is out of 100, this means that once you've collected 100 points, a roll is guaranteed to succeed. (Unless someone rolls successfully for the artifact before you do, but then their points will reset and you will likely win the next roll.) In practice, however, people never reach 100 points. Most people receive an artifact at 0.3-0.7 accumulated points.

In the observed Doom drops from May 18 to June 18, 118 drops (70%) occurred before reaching 0.7 accumulated points, 148 drops (87%) occurred before reaching 1.0 points, and the highest point accumulation one person got was 2.27.


a decent character drops about every 6 hours of play time.

an awesome character can get it down to 4. a bad character will be about every 10-12 hours, perhaps even longer.

if you want a pro-tip, do some solo to build points and when you've done some hours of solo or not many people, play an hour with lots of people. that way you build points at a fast rate but dont get many rolls while you solo, then roll loads of times - every time a boss dies, but don't build many points when there's lots of people there

so solo up to like 1% chance from points, then do lots of rolls with lots of people when you have 1% drop chance saved up
Last edited by Calvin on September 9th, 2017, 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
LEAD
Posts: 337

Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by LEAD »

I think the RNG is a beast of its own... i keep track of what bosses i kill (rooms 1,2,3,4 5 6) easier to do that way... i have went as far as to kill 266 mobs with an estimated 60% of the time getn honor with my sampire... and i finaly dropped an arty..then the next arty only took 80-85 mobs to drop another arty.. i run with 955 luck when the mobs drop.

It would be interesting to see how many mobs it takes for others to drop artys...

Given that i only run 2-5 rounds at a time so i do t get burned out,i couldnt tell you the hourly time it takes to kill a certain number of mobs..
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Tanya
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Tanya »

LEAD wrote:then the next arty only took 80-85 mobs to drop another arty.. i run with 955 luck when the mobs drop.

It would be interesting to see how many mobs it takes for others to drop artys...

Given that i only run 2-5 rounds at a time so i do t get burned out,i couldnt tell you the hourly time it takes to kill a certain number of mobs..
I was testing this on Test Center and took me 45-50 mobs to drop arty.
Was alone soloing it and with 600-700 luck + honor every monster.
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

https://youtu.be/0vX2MrHVGEw
with my old gear it took about 20 mins to clear a round (6 bosses)

https://youtu.be/ZzfTeEzFBRo
with the new gear it's about 12-15 mins

and before you guys start, Calvin has been a swordsman since the second age, and he will always be a swordsman.

so on pure solo (50 bosses) you're talking every 3 hours at 20 min rounds.
but i think you were lucky tbh and got a fast drop there

taking the average of 266, 85, and 50. at 20 min rounds, it would take 8.5 hours
tichondrius
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by tichondrius »

Not sure if luck really makes a huge difference. I've been running an archer with about ~1000 luck before honor and a normal suit on separate occasions. Didn't notice a difference in drop rate at all. I managed to keep the DPS roughly the same amount. It seems to be ~8 hours of grinding in doom for a drop each suit.

Maybe that's just RNG for you. I'm just gonna stick with the normal suit. Not worth the hassle of lugging around the luck suit with no noticeable benefit.

Anyone else notice if luck affected their chances?
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

matters a lot for finding good items while you are grinding the artes tho
it does help on the point gains, not sure by how much
tichondrius
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by tichondrius »

That's true. Unless it's changed on this server, luck of the highest damaging individual is the one that is factored in. So if you have some heavy hitters in DPS gear, I don't think I can make it to the top in luck gear. Plus, I usually let the sampires have honors unless it is on the flesh or impalers.

So then you are wearing a luck suit for nothing, correct?
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Calvin
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by Calvin »

well i solo, lol
if you want decent drop rates, you really need to be able to solo. or 2 man it, but even then the tank is gonna get skanked on points while the DPS cleans up.

hell hound packs will deal the highest damage, then bushido users. both give decent items.

work it out. you have the maths there, work it out and figure out what the % gain on the points you actually get is.
im pretty sure the GMs will have done this already, and it will work out to be about right.

i use mempho instead of gladi in gauntlet, get about 700 passive luck on every boss, does me.

honestly i find the drops to be predictable to about an hour, and it's about every 6 of actual play time. give or take an hour.

i'll generally come second in the damage after who-ever honoured the boss, unless there's a HH tamer
(but bear in mind before you all go HH pack, that it is a pain in the balls to run them)
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deathviper
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by deathviper »

Just to give props to Calvin he let's the Bushido users get honor, he has also rezzed me a few times.
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The Silvertiger
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Re: Doom Info (re-post)

Post by The Silvertiger »

Ole Calvin trying to ruin my event before I even posted it!? Bush warriors and whatever warriors should be able to out damage hh's in room 5. As stated, they can be a pain, especially on the df. You will have to heal the whole time basically. Most of the time you can solo the rooms, even room 5.
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