We need a new Demise.

[Josh]

Osi casting and nerfing mortal are terrible ideas that is why it has not happened.

Explain. Im tired of people in the opposition not having arguments. Just becuase it's not your preference doesn't make it a "terrible idea." I'm willing to listen and have a discussion about it.

Make an argument.

[royal kapero2]

Shake is right. . .

like 6-7 years ago, there were more fencers than archers playing, you could actually kill someone by simply chasing, now it's impossible without ranged mortals.. The main reason was no one used miniheal from uosteam, therefore your hits weren't outhealed, now they can stand and outheal any damage coming from kryss or diamond mace. Also back then CCs weren't common, 80% ep, uosteam healing spam, leggings of the fey..
Only archer can compete with mage for this moment or a ninja with right weps and tactics.. If we talk about a dex class.

What Shake means melee weapons are boosted in next expansions and also new skills help the case.

[Josh]

Shake is right. . .

like 6-7 years ago, there were more fencers than archers playing, you could actually kill someone by simply chasing, now it's impossible without ranged mortals.. The main reason was no one used miniheal from uosteam, therefore your hits weren't outhealed, now they can stand and outheal any damage coming from kryss or diamond mace. Also back then CCs weren't common, 80% ep, uosteam healing spam, leggings of the fey..
Only archer can compete with mage for this moment or a ninja with right weps and tactics.. If we talk about a dex class.

What Shake means melee weapons are boosted in next expansions and also new skills help the case.

I mean shake is right about being able to kill people in the past, sure, but the solution he purposes I dont think is the right one, because high seas and SA introduce eaters and all suits have 70 dci.
Right now on osi the meta is running Bushido parry mages so you can evade dumps and parry dexxer hits. Dexxers can work on there but they definitely arent in a better situation than changing to osi casting.

Also, if you think that you'll kill anyone when cleansing winds becomes a thing, you're joking, especially with this casting. It cures/removes curses/gheals you with one spell. I don't think that is very balanced.

[Anthony File]

OSI Casting with proposed implementations promotes coordinated team play and situational awareness.

Players will have to prep GHeals/Remove Curses, and overextending will have consequence. You’ll no longer be able to stand on screen mid dump and miniheal tank through it, you’ll have to v-line through your team and keep running until you can pot through the damage or catch cross heals.

Sync-Dumps will actually start existing, because players are forced to become situationally aware they will no longer have bad positioning habits, so coordinating and landing spells at the right opportunity will be crucial.

No more ridiculous small spell spam in group fights, good bye one-key MA/FB pvp!

Dismounts will no longer turn into a teleporting battle where the person on foot is likely to fly 10 screens away to safety. Just as tactics mages will no longer be able to teleport and special spam over and over.

Necromages receive a buff to their strangles. We will have more 55 Chiv mages as remove curse will save people from full damage dumps. People will actually start running Parry mages to counter archer ganks. Melee dexxers will become viable to use for pvp.

Spawns will all still be soloable/duoable, I was able to solo/duo every spawn on Pestilent casting and they didn’t even have Spellweaving.

Anyways, these are just some of the things I think OSI casting will effect. I’m sure there are other benefits, and I’d love to hear them as well as valid arguments to why people think casting shouldn’t change.

I think the time to change is now and it will be really be good for the server. I know a lot of people who love ML but refuse to play Demise solely because of the arcade casting.

[Tempest]

OSI Casting with proposed implementations promotes coordinated team play and situational awareness.

Players will have to prep GHeals/Remove Curses, and overextending will have consequence. You’ll no longer be able to stand on screen mid dump and miniheal tank through it, you’ll have to v-line through your team and keep running until you can pot through the damage or catch cross heals.

Sync-Dumps will actually start existing, because players are forced to become situationally aware they will no longer have bad positioning habits, so coordinating and landing spells at the right opportunity will be crucial.

No more ridiculous small spell spam in group fights, good bye one-key MA/FB pvp!

Dismounts will no longer turn into a teleporting battle where the person on foot is likely to fly 10 screens away to safety. Just as tactics mages will no longer be able to teleport and special spam over and over.

Necromages receive a buff to their strangles. We will have more 55 Chiv mages as remove curse will save people from full damage dumps. People will actually start running Parry mages to counter archer ganks. Melee dexxers will become viable to use for pvp.

Spawns will all still be soloable/duoable, I was able to solo/duo every spawn on Pestilent casting and they didn’t even have Spellweaving.

Anyways, these are just some of the things I think OSI casting will effect. I’m sure there are other benefits, and I’d love to hear them as well as valid arguments to why people think casting shouldn’t change.

I think the time to change is now and it will be really be good for the server. I know a lot of people who love ML but refuse to play Demise solely because of the arcade casting.

Who cares?

TLDR.

Shave that chin boy.

[Arden]

People will actually start running Parry mages to counter archer ganks

People will copy Arden thats all I heard....

but basically what he said...its been stated by literally every pvper dating back to when I started the thread like 1-2 years ago. Most of us play mages and we are basically asking for a mage NERF! couple that with DR to mortal and reduced cd on apples and remove the ability to use Cus and we should see a bit more pvp.

If there are unbalanced things they will surface, address them and move on.

PSST - just keep an eye on evasion mages. Could potentially be too strong but like I said, deal with shit as it comes.

[Josh]

People will actually start running Parry mages to counter archer ganks

People will copy Arden thats all I heard....

but basically what he said...its been stated by literally every pvper dating back to when I started the thread like 1-2 years ago. Most of us play mages and we are basically asking for a mage NERF! couple that with DR to mortal and reduced cd on apples and remove the ability to use Cus and we should see a bit more pvp.

If there are unbalanced things they will surface, address them and move on.

PSST - just keep an eye on evasion mages. Could potentially be too strong but like I said, deal with shit as it comes.

WOAH STOP CALLING ME OUT FUCKER

[DG]

Right now 90% of pvpers are archers which is not normal for any uo free server or osi at any phase of uo history.

Mages are always the majority of Demise pvpers.From the first day to the present,it has never changed.

Look at the active pvp guilds now.Its not hard to figure out which is the dominant template.
·HZ:mainly mage players from US,such as Yamaha,Will,Anthony,Mb and so on.Only a few players play archers,who are from Spanish or other countries and have bad ping .
·KVG:mainly mages.most of them from US.Seems only Chad and Ewa main archer.Ewa is from Brasil.
·REQ:its player composition is complex,most of them from EU,they have Asia and US players too. Their ping conditions vary,but there are still about 60% REQ playing mages.
·Loop:Brasil guild.some of them have ping around 100 while others have higher ping.Around 70% of them play mages.
·MSBY(DA):Shake knows this guild well.mainly mages.US guild.
·1410：players from Poland.Not many players.but it looks they still have more mages,such as Bers,Michael Joran,Sexy Chocolate.
·NWO:Not many players.You may find more archers in their guild,who are from Argentina.but Havoc and some other players who are from US main mages.
·SWAT:Korean guild,mainly archers,their ping should be above 150.
·CHN:Chinese guild which i am in.mainly consist of archers due to their 200+ ping(with VPN).

Mages dominance is undeniable on Demise.Yes,there are many archers,but there are still more mages.And the most imortant thing is,most archers are from high ping places.They would not hesitate one sec to play mages if they had the ping which most US players have.Why?Mages are just comparatively stronger and better.

Because of Demise casting,for the most part.

[The Silvertiger]

Just as tactics mages will no longer be able to teleport and special spam over and over.

I disagree. Changing casting, cu's, and adding DR wouldn't effect the ability to tp and special spam. It may not be the most effective, but it will still be possible. You cast tp, which is the timer; you target, or have UOS target; and you press your ability. That doesn't change with casting. The actual casting isn't that much slower. The major problems with casting is recovery, interrupts, and over casting. Fix that and you still have push one button heroes.

Other than that your post was fine.

Another suggestion page ingame with something so weird they have to come visit/respond. Then, you can have a proper discussion, which is ask questions get answers not spam "fix casting".

[Shallan]

Right now 90% of pvpers are archers which is not normal for any uo free server or osi at any phase of uo history.

Mages are always the majority of Demise pvpers.From the first day to the present,it has never changed.

Look at the active pvp guilds now.Its not hard to figure out which is the dominant template.
·HZ:mainly mage players from US,such as Yamaha,Will,Anthony,Mb and so on.Only a few players play archers,who are from Spanish or other countries and have bad ping .
·KVG:mainly mages.most of them from US.Seems only Chad and Ewa main archer.Ewa is from Brasil.
·REQ:its player composition is complex,most of them from EU,they have Asia and US players too. Their ping conditions vary,but there are still about 60% REQ playing mages.
·Loop:Brasil guild.some of them have ping around 100 while others have higher ping.Around 70% of them play mages.
·MSBY(DA):Shake knows this guild well.mainly mages.US guild.
·1410：players from Poland.Not many players.but it looks they still have more mages,such as Bers,Michael Joran,Sexy Chocolate.
·NWO:Not many players.You may find more archers in their guild,who are from Argentina.but Havoc and some other players who are from US main mages.
·SWAT:Korean guild,mainly archers,their ping should be above 150.
·CHN:Chinese guild which i am in.mainly consist of archers due to their 200+ ping(with VPN).

Mages dominance is undeniable on Demise.Yes,there are many archers,but there are still more mages.And the most imortant thing is,most archers are from high ping places.They would not hesitate one sec to play mages if they had the ping which most US players have.Why?Mages are just comparatively stronger and better.

Because of Demise casting,for the most part.

Because of Demise casting,for the most part. ++ Mages ALWAYS hit.

[DG]

Just as tactics mages will no longer be able to teleport and special spam over and over.

I disagree.

His point is tp special spam 'over and over'.That will be solved more or less.

[The Silvertiger]

Just as tactics mages will no longer be able to teleport and special spam over and over.

I disagree.

His point is tp special spam 'over and over'.That will be solved more or less.

I disagree see explanation in the post you quoted.

[Anthony File]

With OSI casting you literally can't keep up with your opponent solely with teleports, let alone teleport scripts which are bound to fizzle and fail due to blocked/unseen locations. On Demise even with failing numerous teleports you can keep up with your opponent because of how fast casting/recovery are.

[DG]

I disagree see explanation in the post you quoted.

Yes,you will still be able to tele special after implmenting OSI casting.But you will no longer tp as fast as before.It will be easier for your opponent to get out of attack range.Its very likely your tele special will be much less effective.

Tele special itself may be bugged.Normally,you have to stop for at least 0.5 sec to shoot next arrow.But when you tele special,it seems you can instantly swing as soon as your next swing is ready.Teleport may be considered as 'stand still' by server.However i havent tested it in game.

[quickdeath]

Casting

It is understandable that the lack of official responses to the casting discussion may seem like disinterest or dismissal. However, the casting problems are the topic of internal staff discussion almost on a weekly basis. The issue is problematic for a few reasons:

• We strive for OSI accuracy, specifically OSI during ML, for the general mechanics of the server, including PvP. OSI's casting model is theoretically what's implemented on Demise, e.g. 6 FCR should mean no recovery delay between spells and spells should have a fixed casting delay. In practice, however, OSI differs from this casting model because of differences in their timing system (having larger tick times resulting in added "randomness") and overcasting resulting in spells that stop casting without any notice halfway. These mechanics could be, and have been up to now, considered buggy behavior because they contradict/corrupt their theoretical model explained in their official documentation. In general, we do not copy OSI behavior if it's considered a bug. This is why, for example, we don't have server line item duping.
• The point can be made that even if OSI casting is considered the result of bugs, the rest of the OSI mechanics we do follow were all implemented in an environment with OSI casting and may be considered imbalanced without it.
• In contrast, we've often heard the RunUO casting system be praised for its consistency and reliability by players that have previously played OSI. (Though, since the release of UOSteam, which takes advantage of every millisecond the server allows, not so much anymore.)

Our "OSI casting" option on the dueling pits was modeled after behavior we observed on OSI, including the cast delay randomness and overcasting silent fizzle. We have considered implementing this system on a larger scale (either shard-wide or in Felucca), but for now the option remains there as an opt-in for anyone who wants it for dueling purposes. It is also there for evaluation purposes, to give players who may not have played OSI an idea of what OSI casting is like (contrary to widespread belief it's not simply a capped FCR).

The idea of expanding this opt-in evaluation to the island of Ocllo is an interesting idea that we may also consider as an alternative to doing Felucca all at once.

If our "OSI casting" dueling option seems invalid or not OSI-like, now would be the time to express why (along with OSI testing validating these claims), before we end up implementing it on a wider scale and causing half the mage population to retire because their casting is too slow. Our testing results so far confirm the mechanics implemented by the dueling option.


Cu sidhes, teleport specials

Not to go off topic too much, as casting seems to be the main focus of this thread, I'd like to touch upon these subjects briefly.

On OSI, it is possible to soulstone your animal taming and lore skills and still be able to ride a cu sidhe. If you last gave it a follow order, it will continue to follow you. Though, there are minor hindrances on OSI like the stable resetting the last given order and not filling up pet happiness. Aside from these minor hindrances, riding a cu sidhe without skill is accurate behavior. We have considered implementing the OSI hindrances, but know that these will not remove the core issue.

Performing a weapon special immediately after teleporting is also OSI accurate behavior. There is no delay after teleporting for weapon swings.

Striving for OSI accuracy and balance also includes maintaining these mechanics.


To bug or not to bug

Most of the game mechanics discussions come down to what is considered an OSI bug and what isn't, because otherwise OSI is the absolute deciding factor without question (which makes things easy for us). While we consider OSI casting to be a bug (reasons outlined above) and riding cu sidhes to be intentional (no taming means no control chance, which is what happens), other people may disagree and are free/encouraged to argue this consideration. At the end of the day, we make a decision based on many factors, not just the loudest or most repeated opinion, and we hope the discussion can continue in a civil manner.


Tl;dr

We read your posts.