We need a new Demise.

[Bad Religion]

Especially when enemiy guilds have come to agreement on them and are the only ones it really affects.

[Vander Nars]

llama speaks for just about all the pvpers on the server despite none of us liking each other and in different guilds, everyone has pretty much come together in wanting changes that we have been begging for for years.

Do i count as a pvper seeings how i have pvped? i dont want this shitty ass changes that yall do

No you dont count as a pvper, ur a trammy that dies in seconds the few times a year u step into fel.

[Josh]

llama speaks for just about all the pvpers on the server despite none of us liking each other and in different guilds, everyone has pretty much come together in wanting changes that we have been begging for for years.

Do i count as a pvper seeings how i have pvped? i dont want this shitty ass changes that yall do

No you dont count as a pvper, ur a trammy that dies in seconds the few times a year u step into fel.

@ajani, 1 dissenting opinion shouldn't overrule a majority.

[Ajani]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

[Josh]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

[Vander Nars]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

Did you expect him to be anything other than a retard?

[DG]

To be honest,the present Demise is good overall.Its longevity,stablility and globalization are outstanding.The current staff team is kind in general.Eos and Selene and some other gms have already done a good job.They always deserve our respect even if you dont agree with the decisions they made.

I dont think Llama Vortex is going to deny the achievements of Demise and the hard work of its staff team.He just cares about this server.He wants Demise to progress,to be better,to be more active,as we all do.

To an old game and old server,its no easy task.There are two possible solutions:1)Add new contents.New monsters,new quests,new gears,new decos,new events and so on.Just give players more things to pursue.2)Encourage PVP.The competition brought by PVP is one of the major reasons for which ppl stay and keep playing.Better Fel loots,fix broken mechanics such as teleport even casting,buff weak templates and so on,will promote pvp,IMO.

The first solution will request a lot coding.It takes time and should be done a bit by a bit,otherwise our gms are going to quit...Maybe the staff team can use some help from players who know coding.Creating the world sounds attractive.

The second solution requires less coding,but its very sensitive.I suggest we stick to the OSI as far as we can.Afterall,the OSI pvp settings are made by professional teams.If we indeed need something customized,please let players discuss and know what the majority think.Run a short trial,if the decision is too hard to make.

[royal kapero2]

[The Silvertiger]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

I believe his idea is to show that the majority isn't always right. The idea is a key principle that all leaders of any organization should be familiar with. Demise staff have a tough job: doing what is best for the server, in their eyes, no matter how many people it upsets.

When staff don't consider the consequences for their actions we wind up with servers that shutdown in a few months or with major economic problems, like Demise currently has due to one person who never cared.

GL HF with distracting the majority from the point.

[royal kapero2]

Once I tested with Mytilus that If I used bleed attack with war fork and 50% hit fireball, focus attack made it to the 100% hit fireball, it turns out that he can just stand, hold a miniheal macro and outheal the damage even though he was heavily interrupted, or should have been..

I am saying all of this because there is some misunderstanding between players. The story with casting is that Demise casting has no delays after interupts (or are very small), means you don't have to care about timing spells. Also you don't overcast spells here, you are supposed to do it when you hold down a button. And UOsteam only let all the people enjoy these two facts, but before the steam, I met a few people abusing or using (If we view Demise casting as something normal, because the server has its own casting system).

The community learnt to live with it, and evolved its own counters (archer use mortals/stuns and alchemy, frenzied whirlwind was a response from melee class, but mages adapted it and made it too OP) However, some people want to see Demise as a competetive place like they experienced it on other servers or OSI. And there are many features that don't match with their pictures, and this conflict between players will last until the Staff makes everything clear and decides what to do or not do.

[The Silvertiger]

Once I tested with Mytilus that If I used bleed attack with war fork and 50% hit fireball, focus attack made it to the 100% hit fireball, it turns out that he can just stand, hold a miniheal macro and outheal the damage even though he was heavily interrupted, or should have been..

I am saying all of this because there is some misunderstanding between players. The story with casting is that Demise casting has no delays after interupts (or are very small), means you don't have to care about timing spells. Also you don't overcast spells here, you are supposed to do it when you hold down a button. And UOsteam only let all the people enjoy these two facts, but before the steam, I met a few people abusing or using (If we view Demise casting as something normal, because the server has its own casting system).

The community learnt to live with it, and evolved its own counters (archer use mortals/stuns and alchemy, frenzied whirlwind was a response from melee class, but mages adapted it and made it too OP) However, some people want to see Demise as a competetive place like they experienced it on other servers or OSI. And there are many features that don't match with their pictures, and this conflict between players will last until the Staff makes everything clear and decides what to do or not do.

Simply beautiful. I am quoting so your opinion doesn't get deleted by your friend Jimmy.

[Ajani]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

Did you expect him to be anything other than a retard?

eat a dick

[Josh]

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_casec ... i=scholarr
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1851-1900/1895/1895_210
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1939/1939_690
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1901-1939/1927/1927_493

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

I believe his idea is to show that the majority isn't always right. The idea is a key principle that all leaders of any organization should be familiar with. Demise staff have a tough job: doing what is best for the server, in their eyes, no matter how many people it upsets.

When staff don't consider the consequences for their actions we wind up with servers that shutdown in a few months or with major economic problems, like Demise currently has due to one person who never cared.

GL HF with distracting the majority from the point.

Okay, here is a more in depth reason why the comparison is bad because I guess it wasn’t obvious to everyone (also this is why I hate comparisons like this).

Segregation is a question of right and wrong aka morality/ethics, which shouldn’t be about majority, it should be able what is fair/just/etc.

The other is a question of player preference, which the decision should be based on the majority’s choice because servers want big communities because that’s normally how they generate profit (obviously donation store isn’t here so they don’t generate profit), but their goal I assume is still to have a lot of players who are happy. That’s why the comparison is stupid. The criteria for decision making is and should be different.

Also, if we question it based on the merits of right/wrong (ethics/morality obviously don’t matter), accuracy has been stated as the goal of the server and this is a emulation of a game so it is an attempt to emulate the characteristics of the game, you should strive for accuracy. Script based pvp shouldn’t be allowed because it rewards players for using 3rd party systems to enhance their “speed” and pushes new players off.

It’s not a distraction from the point, it’s a false equivalency which is a fallacy (meaning logically the argument is flawed). It’s like comparing whether or not I should go to McDonald’s or Taco Bell with my friends and saying “plessy v Ferguson is an example where the majority isn’t right” while the statement is true, the argument it presents (we should go to McDonald’s bc i want it, not taco bell bc all of you want it) is equivocally different, because the criteria of the decision making is fundamentally different.

To your points ****
Yes staff has to consider what’s the right move, that’s why we make arguments and debate about it, but dumb mother fuckers ajani come in and have no argumentative basis and just say “if u change it I quit” with no consideration for what’s best for the server. I’ve had many discussions on forums that weren’t me shittalking/fucking with people about the merits of casting and responded to every criticism in hopes to help convince staff. That’s why the conversations should occur to help them decide between the debate and see how many people support/don’t support and which arguments match what they want.
Then I have fucking retards like you or jim who say some troll shit trying to get me banned (Jim mainly) or claim I have some psychological issue (you) and that is why my arguments should be invalid as to why casting would be a good idea (aka ad hominiem fallacy) because I am a “jerk/obssessed” about casting. Im trying to convince the server admins to save the server. If you pvp’d you’d know the server is dying (especially in the pvp world), so they need to do something. Servers don’t survive without a healthy pvp and pvm community (you need both).

[The Silvertiger]

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

I believe his idea is to show that the majority isn't always right. The idea is a key principle that all leaders of any organization should be familiar with. Demise staff have a tough job: doing what is best for the server, in their eyes, no matter how many people it upsets.

When staff don't consider the consequences for their actions we wind up with servers that shutdown in a few months or with major economic problems, like Demise currently has due to one person who never cared.

GL HF with distracting the majority from the point.

Okay, here is a more in depth reason why the comparison is bad because I guess it wasn’t obvious to everyone (also this is why I hate comparisons like this).

Segregation is a question of right and wrong aka morality/ethics, which shouldn’t be about majority, it should be able what is fair/just/etc.

The other is a question of player preference, which the decision should be based on the majority’s choice because servers want big communities because that’s normally how they generate profit (obviously donation store isn’t here so they don’t generate profit), but their goal I assume is still to have a lot of players who are happy. That’s why the comparison is stupid. The criteria for decision making is and should be different.

Also, if we question it based on the merits of right/wrong (ethics/morality obviously don’t matter), accuracy has been stated as the goal of the server and this is a emulation of a game so it is an attempt to emulate the characteristics of the game, you should strive for accuracy. Script based pvp shouldn’t be allowed because it rewards players for using 3rd party systems to enhance their “speed” and pushes new players off.

It’s not a distraction from the point, it’s a false equivalency which is a fallacy (meaning logically the argument is flawed). It’s like comparing whether or not I should go to McDonald’s or Taco Bell with my friends and saying “plessy v Ferguson is an example where the majority isn’t right” while the statement is true, the argument it presents (we should go to McDonald’s bc i want it, not taco bell bc all of you want it) is equivocally different, because the criteria of the decision making is fundamentally different.

Depends on who's driving the car and/or paying. So I had a friend who hated Krystals. We never went to Krystals even though he was always the minority. And this isn't a democracy. Yes, the staff sometimes implement things based on player suggestion, but most of the time not.

I will give you a demise based example as much as I hate it. The majority of the players stated that there was nothing wrong with the champ spawn system. The one dissenting player was opy. He was right to a degree.

[Vander Nars]

3 of those links don't work. And a brown v board of education overturned Plessy v Ferguson. Also equating casting changes to segregation is fucking retarded. Not even close to the same.

Also, more people in this server than on the Supreme Court.

Did you expect him to be anything other than a retard?

eat a dick

You hungry fat boy?