We need a new Demise.

[The Silvertiger]

Did you expect him to be anything other than a retard?

eat a dick

You hungry fat boy?

stop being childish both of you

[Josh]

Depends on who's driving the car and/or paying. So I had a friend who hated Krystals. We never went to Krystals even though he was always the minority. And this isn't a democracy. Yes, the staff sometimes implement things based on player suggestion, but most of the time not.

I will give you a demise based example as much as I hate it. The majority of the players stated that there was nothing wrong with the champ spawn system. The one dissenting player was opy. He was right to a degree.

Sure, there are exceptions to the food analogy, but the idea was the decision making factors are different, your example isn’t an argument as to why the decision making is based on ethics. The idea is segregation is different, the decision making is different, so it’s a false equivolency. My example was just to show decisionmaking is different in different contexts.

See, I would not be so hesitant to the “minority has a say” argument, if there were an argument ajani has presented other than just “I will quit” and if it were based on osi-mechanics (which I assume opy’s was), but it’s not, it’s just a scare tactic to persuade the gms.

[Josh]

Depends on who's driving the car and/or paying. So I had a friend who hated Krystals. We never went to Krystals even though he was always the minority. And this isn't a democracy. Yes, the staff sometimes implement things based on player suggestion, but most of the time not.

I will give you a demise based example as much as I hate it. The majority of the players stated that there was nothing wrong with the champ spawn system. The one dissenting player was opy. He was right to a degree.

Added this*** was in my edit after you quoted me, answers your argument too.

Yes staff has to consider what’s the right move, that’s why we make arguments and debate about it, but dumb mother fuckers like ajani come in and have no argumentative basis and just say “if u change it I quit” with no consideration for what’s best for the server. I’ve had many discussions on forums that weren’t me shittalking/fucking with people about the merits of casting and responded to every criticism in hopes to help convince staff. That’s why the conversations should occur to help them decide between the debate and see how many people support/don’t support and which arguments match what staff wants.
Then I have fucking retards like you or jim who say some troll shit trying to get me banned (Jim mainly) or claim I have some psychological issue (you) and that is why my arguments should be invalid as to why casting would be a good idea (aka ad hominiem fallacy) because I am a “jerk/obssessed” about casting. Im trying to convince the server admins to save the server. If you pvp’d you’d know the server is dying (especially in the pvp world), so they need to do something. Servers don’t survive without a healthy pvp and pvm community (you need both).

[Vander Nars]

Honestly its fucking retarded that josh is having to explain the difference in court cases that deal with segregation and video games. How the fuck is these two things related at all? I didnt know it was a human right to have shit casting on a uo shard.....

Game developers that ignore their fan bases complaints tend to suffer in the public relations because of ignoring what the majority want, the big issue here is that useless fuck ryan has abandon demise and there is no incentive for the staff to give a fuck about pvp, hell the only staff that pvp are hz that only cares about allowing hz to cheat. We need staff that give a fuck about pvp, that want to see pvp improved and will be impartial. Why do we as players have to keep coming to this fucking site every week and explain why cu sidhes are broken in pvp, why casting is fucking trash, why demise pvp is dying cause everyone is fucking tried of 1 button pvp. Maybe demise is fucking perfect on the pvm side of things being that seems to be the players who are always defending how great demise is, but for most of us pvpers it fucking sucks and we want a staff that gives a flying fuck about it.

[The Silvertiger]

Depends on who's driving the car and/or paying. So I had a friend who hated Krystals. We never went to Krystals even though he was always the minority. And this isn't a democracy. Yes, the staff sometimes implement things based on player suggestion, but most of the time not.

I will give you a demise based example as much as I hate it. The majority of the players stated that there was nothing wrong with the champ spawn system. The one dissenting player was opy. He was right to a degree.

Sure, there are exceptions to the food analogy, but the idea was the decision making factors are different, your example isn’t an argument as to why the decision making is based on ethics. The idea is segregation is different, the decision making is different, so it’s a false equivolency. My example was just to show decisionmaking is different in different contexts.

See, I would not be so hesitant to the “minority has a say” argument, if there were an argument ajani has presented other than just “I will quit” and if it were based on osi-mechanics (which I assume opy’s was), but it’s not, it’s just a scare tactic to persuade the gms.

I agree that Ajani needs an argument that we can talk about and debate. Technically, opy's argument was "I remember being able to solo spawns with a serpents fang [or was it a taskmaster]". His logic was flawed, but it led to correct mechanics. I'm sure he is still unable to solo a spawn with a serpent's fang. The majority opinion is that bedlam sux now, but at least it's mechanically accurate.

To answer your edit/new post:
I understand pvp is dying. Back in the heyday, there was always someone at the gate. Nowadays I can go sit on the log for at min 30 minutes before someone shows up. I was discussing with ajani and others last night in discord that if he actually had an opportunity to play it and was taught correct spell play mechanics, he would probably really enjoy it. That's what got me into pvp learning spell play. I sucked at it, but I had a basic understanding.

The dueling o UO is the best of all games I've ever played. UOS has ruined that. Sure the mechanics behind the scene are to blame, but if you look at a single implementation that had a negative effect on all facets of the game: UOS. It has wrecked the economy, made pvm a press one button and walk away, and killed pvp. If there was one change that I would implement/revert it would be the legalization of UOS. I have been here a very long time and seen many changes. I would ten, one hundred, one thousand times rather see UOS get the boot over fixing casting.

[Josh]

Responding to silver.
Yes UOS sucks, people don’t want it gone and it would kill the server bc people want it and some people don’t read and won’t realize why they can’t connect with UOS. Also you can negotiate features, demise doesn’t really, they should (other servers do). I support negotiating more features. You can break a ton of scripts with negotiating features, like hw n shit, runuo has scripts for that though so they’d switch to that, but I’d like them to break the scripts for sure.

But the core mechanic is the real solution bc things like queues targeting let you go almost as fast as scripts and Runuo can do most of what steam can, which changing steam will have negligible affects imo.

That’s why changing casting will be dope. It’ll making dueling great but idc about that, it’ll make pvping be based on timing and skill not spamming. You’ll have to actually xheal a sync dump, running paths will matter more, positioning will be more important. No more miniheal spamming being able to survive 2 person dumps. People will have to actually play.

[The Silvertiger]

Honestly its fucking retarded that josh is having to explain the difference in court cases that deal with segregation and video games. How the fuck is these two things related at all? I didnt know it was a human right to have shit casting on a uo shard.....

Game developers that ignore their fan bases complaints tend to suffer in the public relations because of ignoring what the majority want, the big issue here is that useless fuck ryan has abandon demise and there is no incentive for the staff to give a fuck about pvp, hell the only staff that pvp are hz that only cares about allowing hz to cheat. We need staff that give a fuck about pvp, that want to see pvp improved and will be impartial. Why do we as players have to keep coming to this fucking site every week and explain why cu sidhes are broken in pvp, why casting is fucking trash, why demise pvp is dying cause everyone is fucking tried of 1 button pvp. Maybe demise is fucking perfect on the pvm side of things being that seems to be the players who are always defending how great demise is, but for most of us pvpers it fucking sucks and we want a staff that gives a flying fuck about it.

How retarded is it to have to explain the fact that the majority isn't always right. This isn't a democracy. This is Demise. If you don't like or think you can do better please start your own server or talk to Ryan about making you the admin. There are plenty of servers out there proving the fact that you can make a successful server, that doesn't have a drop down on razor or UOS, and make good money doing it. When you no longer enjoy playing a server or the members of staff on that server, you need to ask yourself if it's worth your time.

[Josh]

Honestly its fucking retarded that josh is having to explain the difference in court cases that deal with segregation and video games. How the fuck is these two things related at all? I didnt know it was a human right to have shit casting on a uo shard.....

Game developers that ignore their fan bases complaints tend to suffer in the public relations because of ignoring what the majority want, the big issue here is that useless fuck ryan has abandon demise and there is no incentive for the staff to give a fuck about pvp, hell the only staff that pvp are hz that only cares about allowing hz to cheat. We need staff that give a fuck about pvp, that want to see pvp improved and will be impartial. Why do we as players have to keep coming to this fucking site every week and explain why cu sidhes are broken in pvp, why casting is fucking trash, why demise pvp is dying cause everyone is fucking tried of 1 button pvp. Maybe demise is fucking perfect on the pvm side of things being that seems to be the players who are always defending how great demise is, but for most of us pvpers it fucking sucks and we want a staff that gives a flying fuck about it.

How retarded is it to have to explain the fact that the majority isn't always right. This isn't a democracy. This is Demise. If you don't like or think you can do better please start your own server or talk to Ryan about making you the admin. There are plenty of servers out there proving the fact that you can make a successful server, that doesn't have a drop down on razor or UOS, and make good money doing it. When you no longer enjoy playing a server or the members of staff on that server, you need to ask yourself if it's worth your time.

I don’t like this logic. I think not liking something about a server and suggesting changes is necessary. I don’t think if you don’t like an aspect about the server you should quit immediately (especially if it’s an inaccuracy not based on osi), you should suggest the change and see if the staff is willing to discuss then decide if you want to continue playing or not. Also Vander loves demise, he doesn’t like aspects of it.

[The Silvertiger]

Responding to silver.
Yes UOS sucks, people don’t want it gone and it would kill the server bc people want it and some people don’t read and won’t realize why they can’t connect with UOS. Also you can negotiate features, demise doesn’t really, they should (other servers do). I support negotiating more features. You can break a ton of scripts with negotiating features, like hw n shit, runuo has scripts for that though so they’d switch to that, but I’d like them to break the scripts for sure.

But the core mechanic is the real solution bc things like queues targeting let you go almost as fast as scripts and Runuo can do most of what steam can, which changing steam will have negligible affects imo.

That’s why changing casting will be dope. It’ll making dueling great but idc about that, it’ll make pvping be based on timing and skill not spamming. You’ll have to actually xheal a sync dump, running paths will matter more, positioning will be more important. No more miniheal spamming being able to survive 2 person dumps. People will have to actually play.

Before steam, you couldn't minheal survive two-man dumps. you had to throw a weaken in there somewhere. I agree that correct casting would make pvp better, especially dueling which I enjoy. It would make pvm more difficult, but File's/My suggestion of facet specificity would counter that fine. One thing that I don't care for is someone posting "fix casting" in every thread without at least bringing something useful to the topic. I reported a majority of those and would have liked to have seen you take a minivacation to cool off. However, the minority opinion was not followed.

[The Silvertiger]

Honestly its fucking retarded that josh is having to explain the difference in court cases that deal with segregation and video games. How the fuck is these two things related at all? I didnt know it was a human right to have shit casting on a uo shard.....

Game developers that ignore their fan bases complaints tend to suffer in the public relations because of ignoring what the majority want, the big issue here is that useless fuck ryan has abandon demise and there is no incentive for the staff to give a fuck about pvp, hell the only staff that pvp are hz that only cares about allowing hz to cheat. We need staff that give a fuck about pvp, that want to see pvp improved and will be impartial. Why do we as players have to keep coming to this fucking site every week and explain why cu sidhes are broken in pvp, why casting is fucking trash, why demise pvp is dying cause everyone is fucking tried of 1 button pvp. Maybe demise is fucking perfect on the pvm side of things being that seems to be the players who are always defending how great demise is, but for most of us pvpers it fucking sucks and we want a staff that gives a flying fuck about it.

How retarded is it to have to explain the fact that the majority isn't always right. This isn't a democracy. This is Demise. If you don't like or think you can do better please start your own server or talk to Ryan about making you the admin. There are plenty of servers out there proving the fact that you can make a successful server, that doesn't have a drop down on razor or UOS, and make good money doing it. When you no longer enjoy playing a server or the members of staff on that server, you need to ask yourself if it's worth your time.

I don’t like this logic. I think not liking something about a server and suggesting changes is necessary. I don’t think if you don’t like an aspect about the server you should quit immediately (especially if it’s an inaccuracy not based on osi), you should suggest the change and see if the staff is willing to discuss then decide if you want to continue playing or not. Also Vander loves demise, he doesn’t like aspects of it.

Suggesting change as opposed to demanding change is quite different. The suggestion has been noted to the point that they implemented the suggestion to dueling arenas. At this point, you are no longer suggesting but demanding.

[Vander Nars]

Honestly its fucking retarded that josh is having to explain the difference in court cases that deal with segregation and video games. How the fuck is these two things related at all? I didnt know it was a human right to have shit casting on a uo shard.....

Game developers that ignore their fan bases complaints tend to suffer in the public relations because of ignoring what the majority want, the big issue here is that useless fuck ryan has abandon demise and there is no incentive for the staff to give a fuck about pvp, hell the only staff that pvp are hz that only cares about allowing hz to cheat. We need staff that give a fuck about pvp, that want to see pvp improved and will be impartial. Why do we as players have to keep coming to this fucking site every week and explain why cu sidhes are broken in pvp, why casting is fucking trash, why demise pvp is dying cause everyone is fucking tried of 1 button pvp. Maybe demise is fucking perfect on the pvm side of things being that seems to be the players who are always defending how great demise is, but for most of us pvpers it fucking sucks and we want a staff that gives a flying fuck about it.

How retarded is it to have to explain the fact that the majority isn't always right. This isn't a democracy. This is Demise. If you don't like or think you can do better please start your own server or talk to Ryan about making you the admin. There are plenty of servers out there proving the fact that you can make a successful server, that doesn't have a drop down on razor or UOS, and make good money doing it. When you no longer enjoy playing a server or the members of staff on that server, you need to ask yourself if it's worth your time.

Its fucking people like you that are the problem on this server, you're fucking retarded and rather the shard die than see any kinda change. News flash you stupid fuck not everyone has the skill to code, so no I cant just go make a new shard that you retards constantly reply with everytime we ask for anything to be fucking fixed.

[Josh]

How retarded is it to have to explain the fact that the majority isn't always right. This isn't a democracy. This is Demise. If you don't like or think you can do better please start your own server or talk to Ryan about making you the admin. There are plenty of servers out there proving the fact that you can make a successful server, that doesn't have a drop down on razor or UOS, and make good money doing it. When you no longer enjoy playing a server or the members of staff on that server, you need to ask yourself if it's worth your time.

I don’t like this logic. I think not liking something about a server and suggesting changes is necessary. I don’t think if you don’t like an aspect about the server you should quit immediately (especially if it’s an inaccuracy not based on osi), you should suggest the change and see if the staff is willing to discuss then decide if you want to continue playing or not. Also Vander loves demise, he doesn’t like aspects of it.

Suggesting change as opposed to demanding change is quite different. The suggestion has been noted to the point that they implemented the suggestion to dueling arenas. At this point, you are no longer suggesting but demanding.

Uhm, nah? We’re argueing the merits of osi casting. Some people just troll and don’t do that.

Also why’s it matter if we’re demanding, all we are demanding is a response. If they say “no” then so be it, atleast listen to what people want, and respond.

[The Silvertiger]

They did. Must I repeat myself: they implemented it in arenas. "fix casting" is not a demand for a response.

Vander you just made the list. You may now snuggle up to Calvin and Tempest as people who literally aren't worth my time to even read what they say. You are the weakest link. Good Bye.

[Vander Nars]

They did. Must I repeat myself: they implemented it in arenas. "fix casting" is not a demand for a response.

Vander you just made the list. You may now snuggle up to Calvin and Tempest as people who literally aren't worth my time to even read what they say. You are the weakest link. Good Bye.

Oh no I got put on the bad list of some useless fucking troll whos only joy in life is playing the devil's advocate anytime something is brought up, go fucking cry me a river.

[Josh]

They did. Must I repeat myself: they implemented it in arenas. "fix casting" is not a demand for a response.

Vander you just made the list. You may now snuggle up to Calvin and Tempest as people who literally aren't worth my time to even read what they say. You are the weakest link. Good Bye.

These are separate suggestions. There has been a 1+ year discussion on whether osi casting should be on the actual server. There hasn’t been a response to that, there have been far more supporters come to light recently (mainly hz seems to have changed their mind) so maybe it’s time to re-evaluate that previous position. Also they never said “no” to implementing casting they said they didn’t have plans to about 1 and a half ago. If they want the pvp on the server to survive they have to change something (they could decide casting isn’t the proper change).

Also, “osi casting” option on the duel pits isn’t osi casting, it’s much too slow.