UOG: Demise

Brad wrote: Archers are already annoying, won't be much difference from how some guild play already (6 archers, 1 tactics mage.)

All the bad guilds you mean.

Brad wrote:Problem with making the apple timer OSI accurate is that the necro becomes obsolete like it was on OSI for field fighting. It's still pretty useless here as it is but it's at least playable. I'd be in favour of the changes if the "new player influx" would actually stay around for more than 2 weeks. Archers are already annoying, won't be much difference from how some guild play already (6 archers, 1 tactics mage.)

I don't think we make apples osi accurate and which is 30s, I think 45s-60s is adequate, bc 2 minutes is ridiculous. Also necros are already useless other than a small niche player base bc of spellweaving. Also any chiv (55 skill + karma) already makes necromages useless. Also, a 45-60s timer would be enough for most people to kill someone with strangle/corpse/curse or mortal. I think this should be in conjunction with a casting fix.

Eos wrote:[*] Casting a spell within 250ms of your last spell will "break" the spell. This is very buggy behavior that occurs on OSI that effectively means you cannot cast spells in fast succession. A "broken" spell will appear to cast fine initially (showing the words of power), but it will not lead to a target, will not block movement and will only show 1 casting animation, but it does block casting a new spell until it finishes completely.

I don't believe you about this "broken spell" thing, but even if it isn't so, the casting is fine the way it was before. I've already taken back what I've said about casting previously.

Fast casting is fiiiiiiiiiine.

I love necros, but I agree with chicken, some other things would need to be rebalanced as well before it was rolled out, 30 second apples would be too quick, although I think the osi apple there is a fail rate depending On how many curses are on you. Para fields would need to be adjusted too, tile wise, lots of stuff. I think good mages won't have a problem either way with dexxers.

atomic chicken wrote:I don't think we make apples osi accurate and which is 30s, I think 45s-60s is adequate, bc 2 minutes is ridiculous. Also necros are already useless other than a small niche player base bc of spellweaving. Also any chiv (55 skill + karma) already makes necromages useless. Also, a 45-60s timer would be enough for most people to kill someone with strangle/corpse/curse or mortal. I think this should be in conjunction with a casting fix.

nah man, necro is good except that you have no parablow (unless you put wrestling on). If they spam remove curse every time you put on a spell you can just cast mind rot and they will run out of mana casting remove curse over and over. 120-second apple is fine. 60-second would probably still be too slow.

You need to turn off some steam features.

You also need to rethink the balance of mechanics.

Instead of arbitrarily choosing some moment on OSI to attempt to clone.

RunUO's default casting is superior already.



The biggest problem is that without a delay between casts, steam can force waiting for a target and force sending that target out as fast as possible.

Before this problem. people simply couldn't cast as fast as it was technically possible to do.

If they tried, they would often "overcast" by trying to cast a spell when a target gump is up, canceling the first spell.

That is really what made mage fights. if you are good and your opponent is bad, they will drop 1/2 their spells by overcasting. offensive and defensive spells.




Outside of this I see 3 big problems that steam creates.

Being able to script double clicking your corpse and gathering all the items instantly is terrible alone, but even worse with gift of life.

Being able to range-check teleports and thus being able to outrun someone not only with teleport but with a script that takes any skill out of it.

Being able to search for player graphic types in range, check if they are friend listed, and then heal them based on their missing hp. This is probably the worst of the 3 problems. All the other servers I've been on disable checking hits this way.



All this being said. I'm not sure a casting change is best. It won't solve all the problems and like you said, people are so used to the way it is.

Your best bet seems to be disable some steam features. It might break a few non-pvp scripts but those people will just have to cry about it and start pressing buttons. It is a game after all.

In this day-in-age, the game is being played for you instead of you playing the game.

As Kolby said above ^, other servers have disabled many steam features in which results in many scripts being un-usable.

I agree with tweaking with the steam features to see if that makes any difference, and go from there. It's completely trial-and-error at this point.

I for the life of me cant figure out why demise disable auto bandages in steam but allow all these 1 button macros to function in pvp. Its like witnessing a bank robbery and jaywalking at the same time and you stop the jaywalker....

kolbycrouch wrote:You need to turn off some steam features.

You also need to rethink the balance of mechanics.

Instead of arbitrarily choosing some moment on OSI to attempt to clone.

RunUO's default casting is superior already.



The biggest problem is that without a delay between casts, steam can force waiting for a target and force sending that target out as fast as possible.

Before this problem. people simply couldn't cast as fast as it was technically possible to do.

If they tried, they would often "overcast" by trying to cast a spell when a target gump is up, canceling the first spell.

That is really what made mage fights. if you are good and your opponent is bad, they will drop 1/2 their spells by overcasting. offensive and defensive spells.




Outside of this I see 3 big problems that steam creates.

Being able to script double clicking your corpse and gathering all the items instantly is terrible alone, but even worse with gift of life.

Being able to range-check teleports and thus being able to outrun someone not only with teleport but with a script that takes any skill out of it.

Being able to search for player graphic types in range, check if they are friend listed, and then heal them based on their missing hp. This is probably the worst of the 3 problems. All the other servers I've been on disable checking hits this way.



All this being said. I'm not sure a casting change is best. It won't solve all the problems and like you said, people are so used to the way it is.

Your best bet seems to be disable some steam features. It might break a few non-pvp scripts but those people will just have to cry about it and start pressing buttons. It is a game after all.

This sounds like dog shit, RunUo casting far superior? Are you fucking retarded? The casting wasn't bad before Steam but it still wasn't amazing either lol... this casting change would draw in more people then it would to be losing players... I know of multiple people who would come here if it was changed, I for one want it changed and would actually like to be able to hold a spell again and fizzle your ass causing a delay on your end and end up fucking you in the ass, but you clearly wouldn't know anything about that now would you? You also just gave your shit to Ajani who ever the fuck that dweeb is so I don't even know why you would have any kind of input on this which is shitty input to begin with.

Everyone keeps talking about necros, when will be able to spirit speak while casting a spell? Yeah, most kids here won't know about that either.

This casting change has been mentioned a thousands times, Demise is dying, Demise needs change.

Reefer wrote:

kolbycrouch wrote:You need to turn off some steam features.

You also need to rethink the balance of mechanics.

Instead of arbitrarily choosing some moment on OSI to attempt to clone.

RunUO's default casting is superior already.



The biggest problem is that without a delay between casts, steam can force waiting for a target and force sending that target out as fast as possible.

Before this problem. people simply couldn't cast as fast as it was technically possible to do.

If they tried, they would often "overcast" by trying to cast a spell when a target gump is up, canceling the first spell.

That is really what made mage fights. if you are good and your opponent is bad, they will drop 1/2 their spells by overcasting. offensive and defensive spells.




Outside of this I see 3 big problems that steam creates.

Being able to script double clicking your corpse and gathering all the items instantly is terrible alone, but even worse with gift of life.

Being able to range-check teleports and thus being able to outrun someone not only with teleport but with a script that takes any skill out of it.

Being able to search for player graphic types in range, check if they are friend listed, and then heal them based on their missing hp. This is probably the worst of the 3 problems. All the other servers I've been on disable checking hits this way.



All this being said. I'm not sure a casting change is best. It won't solve all the problems and like you said, people are so used to the way it is.

Your best bet seems to be disable some steam features. It might break a few non-pvp scripts but those people will just have to cry about it and start pressing buttons. It is a game after all.

This sounds like dog shit, RunUo casting far superior? Are you fucking retarded? The casting wasn't bad before Steam but it still wasn't amazing either lol... this casting change would draw in more people then it would to be losing players... I know of multiple people who would come here if it was changed, I for one want it changed and would actually like to be able to hold a spell again and fizzle your ass causing a delay on your end and end up fucking you in the ass, but you clearly wouldn't know anything about that now would you? You also just gave your shit to Ajani who ever the fuck that dweeb is so I don't even know why you would have any kind of input on this which is shitty input to begin with.

Everyone keeps talking about necros, when will be able to spirit speak while casting a spell? Yeah, most kids here won't know about that either.

This casting change has been mentioned a thousands times, Demise is dying, Demise needs change.

if you think the problems aren't 90% steam related, then you're retarded.

If you think changing the casting on a server with 80% trammies is gonna increase the net population, you're even more retarded.

kolbycrouch wrote:

Reefer wrote:

kolbycrouch wrote:You need to turn off some steam features.

You also need to rethink the balance of mechanics.

Instead of arbitrarily choosing some moment on OSI to attempt to clone.

RunUO's default casting is superior already.



The biggest problem is that without a delay between casts, steam can force waiting for a target and force sending that target out as fast as possible.

Before this problem. people simply couldn't cast as fast as it was technically possible to do.

If they tried, they would often "overcast" by trying to cast a spell when a target gump is up, canceling the first spell.

That is really what made mage fights. if you are good and your opponent is bad, they will drop 1/2 their spells by overcasting. offensive and defensive spells.




Outside of this I see 3 big problems that steam creates.

Being able to script double clicking your corpse and gathering all the items instantly is terrible alone, but even worse with gift of life.

Being able to range-check teleports and thus being able to outrun someone not only with teleport but with a script that takes any skill out of it.

Being able to search for player graphic types in range, check if they are friend listed, and then heal them based on their missing hp. This is probably the worst of the 3 problems. All the other servers I've been on disable checking hits this way.



All this being said. I'm not sure a casting change is best. It won't solve all the problems and like you said, people are so used to the way it is.

Your best bet seems to be disable some steam features. It might break a few non-pvp scripts but those people will just have to cry about it and start pressing buttons. It is a game after all.

This sounds like dog shit, RunUo casting far superior? Are you fucking retarded? The casting wasn't bad before Steam but it still wasn't amazing either lol... this casting change would draw in more people then it would to be losing players... I know of multiple people who would come here if it was changed, I for one want it changed and would actually like to be able to hold a spell again and fizzle your ass causing a delay on your end and end up fucking you in the ass, but you clearly wouldn't know anything about that now would you? You also just gave your shit to Ajani who ever the fuck that dweeb is so I don't even know why you would have any kind of input on this which is shitty input to begin with.

Everyone keeps talking about necros, when will be able to spirit speak while casting a spell? Yeah, most kids here won't know about that either.

This casting change has been mentioned a thousands times, Demise is dying, Demise needs change.

if you think the problems aren't 90% steam related, then you're retarded.

If you think changing the casting on a server with 80% trammies is gonna increase the net population, you're even more retarded.

Did I not say steam was a problem that made this casting worse? pretty sure I did, I guess you cannot fucking read, and you must be really retarded if you don't think more pvpers would come on a 80% tram based server, guess it wouldn't be to hard to do now would it since it's only 20% pvpers, you are are fucking retarded LOL. I know atleast 20% that would come right now, if the shitty 20% mages don't leave because of the change then that would make even more pvpers. Even before Steam, this casting was not superior to OSI lol, was it tolerable yes but was it superior hell no, you must be fucking high kid.

please change the archers too they have great damage, ep 50, auto pots, auto healing, run with all of this, etc etc

Id come back for sure if we got these changes. i for one havve always played a pure mage i did exceedingly well in doing so and as the years passed by i found my self lacking the ability to kill people the day before i could. i found this was due to the use of scripts and mostly ma fireball spam. i dont know how to do it and it doesnt feel authentic i would like to see the old style casting so pure mage would be viable again.

I stand by my suggestion even after all these arguments and namecallings. Osi casting in fel and demise casting in tram rulesets. It would be a great implementation to the shard. You keep your 80% trammies(I think that % is pretty high) and you get a population boost to your feluccaites. I believe 75-80% of your 20% will want this or be satisfied with a necro mage nerf. I must admit I will miss thunderstorm bombs.

thats because 80% of the servers pvp population plays archers now