We need a new Demise.

[Ajani]

Casting

It is understandable that the lack of official responses to the casting discussion may seem like disinterest or dismissal. However, the casting problems are the topic of internal staff discussion almost on a weekly basis. The issue is problematic for a few reasons:

• We strive for OSI accuracy, specifically OSI during ML, for the general mechanics of the server, including PvP. OSI's casting model is theoretically what's implemented on Demise, e.g. 6 FCR should mean no recovery delay between spells and spells should have a fixed casting delay. In practice, however, OSI differs from this casting model because of differences in their timing system (having larger tick times resulting in added "randomness") and overcasting resulting in spells that stop casting without any notice halfway. These mechanics could be, and have been up to now, considered buggy behavior because they contradict/corrupt their theoretical model explained in their official documentation. In general, we do not copy OSI behavior if it's considered a bug. This is why, for example, we don't have server line item duping.
• The point can be made that even if OSI casting is considered the result of bugs, the rest of the OSI mechanics we do follow were all implemented in an environment with OSI casting and may be considered imbalanced without it.
• In contrast, we've often heard the RunUO casting system be praised for its consistency and reliability by players that have previously played OSI. (Though, since the release of UOSteam, which takes advantage of every millisecond the server allows, not so much anymore.)

Our "OSI casting" option on the dueling pits was modeled after behavior we observed on OSI, including the cast delay randomness and overcasting silent fizzle. We have considered implementing this system on a larger scale (either shard-wide or in Felucca), but for now the option remains there as an opt-in for anyone who wants it for dueling purposes. It is also there for evaluation purposes, to give players who may not have played OSI an idea of what OSI casting is like (contrary to widespread belief it's not simply a capped FCR).

The idea of expanding this opt-in evaluation to the island of Ocllo is an interesting idea that we may also consider as an alternative to doing Felucca all at once.

If our "OSI casting" dueling option seems invalid or not OSI-like, now would be the time to express why (along with OSI testing validating these claims), before we end up implementing it on a wider scale and causing half the mage population to retire because their casting is too slow. Our testing results so far confirm the mechanics implemented by the dueling option.


Cu sidhes, teleport specials

Not to go off topic too much, as casting seems to be the main focus of this thread, I'd like to touch upon these subjects briefly.

On OSI, it is possible to soulstone your animal taming and lore skills and still be able to ride a cu sidhe. If you last gave it a follow order, it will continue to follow you. Though, there are minor hindrances on OSI like the stable resetting the last given order and not filling up pet happiness. Aside from these minor hindrances, riding a cu sidhe without skill is accurate behavior. We have considered implementing the OSI hindrances, but know that these will not remove the core issue.

Performing a weapon special immediately after teleporting is also OSI accurate behavior. There is no delay after teleporting for weapon swings.

Striving for OSI accuracy and balance also includes maintaining these mechanics.


To bug or not to bug

Most of the game mechanics discussions come down to what is considered an OSI bug and what isn't, because otherwise OSI is the absolute deciding factor without question (which makes things easy for us). While we consider OSI casting to be a bug (reasons outlined above) and riding cu sidhes to be intentional (no taming means no control chance, which is what happens), other people may disagree and are free/encouraged to argue this consideration. At the end of the day, we make a decision based on many factors, not just the loudest or most repeated opinion, and we hope the discussion can continue in a civil manner.


Tl;dr

We read your posts.

I <3 U

[royal kapero2]

An important evidence... He tried to miniheal through my repeating crossbow damage (properties 40%+ hit lightning, 40%+ hit mana leech, 1.75speed, double shots)
And yet he was still interrupted, it was while everyone used razor..


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... ybrown.png

And he had a superior suit...


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _brown.png

[Arden]

Steam is a problem but you can do the same thing in razor if you have half a brain.

Steam just did it for you by adding a “heal” script built in

[royal kapero2]

My point is that UOsteam revealed the true nature of Demise casting..

[Josh]

I started to have doubts when one day I couldn't kill mago branco with my fencer days after uosteam was released as an official software and he was just standing on foot and outhealing the damage from my AIs, I used a kryss with hit fireball property and backed up armor ignores with deadly poison XD

That sounds like steam is the problem.

IMO things like VASH, auto potion chug scripts and steam are the problem, but no one seems willing to let any of that go

Idk what VASH is, I don’t auto chug/auto bandie. But these aren’t unique to steam, runuo can autochug too, so there’s no real way to get rid of that. I don’t think getting rid of steam is the solution, rather get rid of some features, they force negotiate features already (like disabling auto loot), so they just need to get rid of some more features like injournal reading, diffhits health checks on other players, get and target closest/nearest, and some other features I can’t think of off the top of my head.

[Ajani]

I started to have doubts when one day I couldn't kill mago branco with my fencer days after uosteam was released as an official software and he was just standing on foot and outhealing the damage from my AIs, I used a kryss with hit fireball property and backed up armor ignores with deadly poison XD

That sounds like steam is the problem.

IMO things like VASH, auto potion chug scripts and steam are the problem, but no one seems willing to let any of that go

Idk what VASH is, I don’t auto chug/auto bandie. But these aren’t unique to steam, runuo can autochug too, so there’s no real way to get rid of that. I don’t think getting rid of steam is the solution, rather get rid of some features, they force negotiate features already (like disabling auto loot), so they just need to get rid of some more features like injournal reading, diffhits health checks on other players, get and target closest/nearest, and some other features I can’t think of off the top of my head.

get rid of the loop option

[royal kapero2]

Hit the root of the problem, casting was exposed as the root..

[Josh]

That sounds like steam is the problem.

IMO things like VASH, auto potion chug scripts and steam are the problem, but no one seems willing to let any of that go

Idk what VASH is, I don’t auto chug/auto bandie. But these aren’t unique to steam, runuo can autochug too, so there’s no real way to get rid of that. I don’t think getting rid of steam is the solution, rather get rid of some features, they force negotiate features already (like disabling auto loot), so they just need to get rid of some more features like injournal reading, diffhits health checks on other players, get and target closest/nearest, and some other features I can’t think of off the top of my head.

get rid of the loop option

You can repeat macros without the loop option I’m pretty sure

[Ajani]

Idk what VASH is, I don’t auto chug/auto bandie. But these aren’t unique to steam, runuo can autochug too, so there’s no real way to get rid of that. I don’t think getting rid of steam is the solution, rather get rid of some features, they force negotiate features already (like disabling auto loot), so they just need to get rid of some more features like injournal reading, diffhits health checks on other players, get and target closest/nearest, and some other features I can’t think of off the top of my head.

get rid of the loop option

You can repeat macros without the loop option I’m pretty sure

I have tried it crashes my steam

[The Silvertiger]

For is strong

[koziar]

Understand, change casting is not simple things, but in my opinion min what we need is:

- Delete Cu shide and other strong Mount bug
- chnsge range teleport for max 8-9
- change Delay beetwen teleport and special ( now we have lot mage with macro teleport+spec), moreover when u teleport you have instant shot from bow which is bug too... We need have small Delay for use special after teleport
- Delete uosteam option relative target/ nearest target / detective poison and instant chug cure potion etc...
-buff warrior, but there i dont have any idea how, but playing only mage / Archer is So boring

Maybe this things could be repair faster and later we Will see what we need more

[Vander Nars]

steam is not the issue, it made the issue noticeable but it didnt create the issue. The issue is demise casting, most of these pvmers are gonna lose their shit if they lose steam macros but only like 2 people are gonna quit if we fix casting. Bye shake/Ajani

with that said, i dont care how u fix it as long as its fixed.

[Josh]

Understand, change casting is not simple things, but in my opinion min what we need is:

- Delete Cu shide and other strong Mount bug
- chnsge range teleport for max 8-9
- change Delay beetwen teleport and special ( now we have lot mage with macro teleport+spec), moreover when u teleport you have instant shot from bow which is bug too... We need have small Delay for use special after teleport
- Delete uosteam option relative target/ nearest target / detective poison and instant chug cure potion etc...
-buff warrior, but there i dont have any idea how, but playing only mage / Archer is So boring

Maybe this things could be repair faster and later we Will see what we need more

I think these are all bad ideas except the delete relative target/nearest target/detect poison and the cu side bug
I think gimping other mechancis is not a good way to go.

I think casting change is more simple than you think, they can modify the code, getting it right/close-to-right is the hardest part.

You also achieve the dexxer buff, mage nerf, and teleport nerf all at once with this one change

[Arden]

Reducing tele range changes the entire game for mages. Also makes some places no longer accessible that have always been intended to be reached.

Casting change fixes teleport specials AND tele port bola...

Which brings me to... fix fucking bolas. It’s ass backwards and such a simple fix. Your staff member MB exploits it constantly. Funny how staff doesn’t even report pvp bugs

[Josh]

get rid of the loop option

You can repeat macros without the loop option I’m pretty sure

I have tried it crashes my steam

I don’t mean the command, there’s another way to loop things, just have playmacro at the end of the script to another macro that is a playmacro for the script you want to repeat.