Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Let loose about your latest battles and other PVP shenanigans here. (This section is still subject to moderation.)
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Vander Nars
Posts: 1750

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#16 » February 13th, 2019, 6:26 pm

kobra wrote:If I'm correctly osi casting is literally nerfing casting. If you guys are thinking about slowing down my game because it's to fast for you maybe instead of doing it play little more and learn how to deal with it :)

Alot of these people ur talking about are better mages than you.
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kobra
Posts: 728

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#17 » February 13th, 2019, 7:37 pm

Vander Nars wrote:
kobra wrote:If I'm correctly osi casting is literally nerfing casting. If you guys are thinking about slowing down my game because it's to fast for you maybe instead of doing it play little more and learn how to deal with it :)

Alot of these people ur talking about are better mages than you.

noone is better then me, fuck you faggot :D
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Josh
Posts: 605

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#18 » February 13th, 2019, 9:54 pm

The Silvertiger wrote:
Josh wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:You are correct. Mostly mages wanting to nerf their own class. I enjoy it from a dueling perspective, but I don't see it being so much more enjoyable in the field unless you catch a 1v1.

Its good in the field because you have to work as a team to actually kill someone or to keep someone alive. Simply holding down a script to miniheal spam someone should not be the criteria for surviving a well timed dump. It's super frustrating seeing someone heal more than an ebolt will do while its the air with just holding down one miniheal (this is just the missile speed vs miniheal self time, you can heal more hp than taken, it's kinda crazy).

Also it forces people to position well, people get away with A LOT of mistakes because they have these scripts.

Also the biggest gripe from people, actually, is the teleport spamming, the fact a dexxer cant get away from a mage if the mage simply teleports. Or a mage can get away from any dexxer by simply teleporting. This makes it really imbalanced for dexxers. Or teleport bola spamming, some people like doing that too, it's dumb.

Another point is melee dexxers. Being able to disrupt with things like bleed and weapon hits are very valuable. Mages should not be this strong. There is a reason there are very very few melee dexxers (and even less effective ones, I've seen maybe 2 or 3 total melee dexxers be decent). Slower casting is the only way to make multiple melee dexxers actually effective.

I think someone will be able to script heal just as easy with OSI-casting.

The TP's are disgusting. I'm surprised no one is using them with a melee class.

Nah, it's not about script healing being usable, it's about creating a balance between scripters vs non-scripters. Give the non-scripters a chance. A good player on osi casting can beat a heal self script. It's about giving the non-scripter a chance, which you said "outside of dueling" or whatever, which is the only time the miniheal script will matter. My other point to you was the miniheal teammate script will be less effective in the field and will let people get away with less mistakes (aka cant run xminiheal without losing tiles). I've killed many people 1v1, but if someone holds down a miniheal self button (Im an alchy scribe mage) and I cant kill that person with just magery, simply bc they heal faster than i can do damage. The only way I can kill people (unless they arent paying attention to their hp) is by baiting them with conflags or parafield/wall/explo pot tricks, while on osi I could disrupt their gheals with lightning, I can time lightning, harm or some other spell to disrupt one of the miniheals.

Another good example I can give is when I get dismounted, people weaken/clumsy spam right? Well, normally on osi you would magic arrow, disrupt a weaken and be able to get teleport off, if timed right. Since, disrupts dont matter on this server, you cant really do that, u have to offscreen, which is hard to do on foot. There is just a lot of outplay potential with osi-casting that isn't available on demise casting.

Tl;DR osi casting gives a non-scripting pure mage the potential to kill a scripting miniheal self mage.
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Josh
Posts: 605

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#19 » February 13th, 2019, 10:00 pm

kobra wrote:
Vander Nars wrote:
kobra wrote:If I'm correctly osi casting is literally nerfing casting. If you guys are thinking about slowing down my game because it's to fast for you maybe instead of doing it play little more and learn how to deal with it :)

Alot of these people ur talking about are better mages than you.

noone is better then me, fuck you faggot :D

Yep, sitting back and holding down miniheal/remove curse teammate button, that makes u reel guud fren.

kobra wrote:Guys you didint have to jump on me because I don't like your idea.
I just truly believe that slowing down uo isn't a good choice, for me we could speed it up a little :)

Didn't jump on you (arden might've), I respect when people disagree but you're just trolling, you have no argumentation why it would be good for the server or balances, when you make an argument why its good or is balancing then we can have a discussion.

The Silvertiger
Posts: 3344

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#20 » February 14th, 2019, 12:13 am

Josh wrote:Nah, it's not about script healing being usable, it's about creating a balance between scripters vs non-scripters. Give the non-scripters a chance. A good player on osi casting can beat a heal self script. It's about giving the non-scripter a chance, which you said "outside of dueling" or whatever, which is the only time the miniheal script will matter. My other point to you was the miniheal teammate script will be less effective in the field and will let people get away with less mistakes (aka cant run xminiheal without losing tiles). I've killed many people 1v1, but if someone holds down a miniheal self button (Im an alchy scribe mage) and I cant kill that person with just magery, simply bc they heal faster than i can do damage. The only way I can kill people (unless they arent paying attention to their hp) is by baiting them with conflags or parafield/wall/explo pot tricks, while on osi I could disrupt their gheals with lightning, I can time lightning, harm or some other spell to disrupt one of the miniheals.

Another good example I can give is when I get dismounted, people weaken/clumsy spam right? Well, normally on osi you would magic arrow, disrupt a weaken and be able to get teleport off, if timed right. Since, disrupts dont matter on this server, you cant really do that, u have to offscreen, which is hard to do on foot. There is just a lot of outplay potential with osi-casting that isn't available on demise casting.

Tl;DR osi casting gives a non-scripting pure mage the potential to kill a scripting miniheal self mage.

I was actually talking about the mini heal/scripted-heal teammate when I said people will just make a new script. Mini heal self can be beaten here by any decent mage, on current casting, you should know that. Mini heal/scripted-heal teammate will no doubt be more balanced, but as long UOS, or any other in-depth scripting program, exists on demise scripters and non-scripters will never be balanced.

I'm not against you or the scripting change when limited to fel. I even suggested it in like 2017 when they first implemented it on TC. I really believe it will make pvp better in the field and in dueling. I guess in my original reply to Dom, I was saying I don't think field pvp will ever be enjoyable again, for me. I also believe a healthy pvp community will help with gold inflation if the staff keeps on top of gold farming. I'm highly concerned about gold inflation, but that's another thread that I haven't begun yet. Still looking for sink ideas.
Leadership doesn't look at problems and say this is why I can't do something. Leadership acknowledges that there's a problem and tries to figure out how to go around, over, under, or through the problem in order to accomplish what they set out to do.

Arden
Posts: 1232

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#21 » February 14th, 2019, 12:46 am

I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.

Unlike most of the people talking in this thread I was a top dueler on osi not just a runuo/steam super star. And you 100% can hold down mini heal self with pots and never die as long as your mana holds out and you don’t take a mortal or purple pots. It’s almost as strong as a scribe mage harm spamming a target that doesn’t move. If you add in heal pots with ep it is stronger.


Now if you mean in the pits without pots just mini heal self vs a mage cycling. Yes a mage could win but you’d need to get some interrupts and I would call those lucky bc Demise casting is so fucked a 150ping vs a 50ping makes getting those super hard. But it’s hard to talk about bc Demise dueling is the dumbest dueling rules I’ve evwr seen. Most Demise duels allow specials and weapon swings in mage duels. One of the main reasons outside of the casting that demise “duels” are joke to all mages outside of Demise (and even most of us on it)

“Duel me bro but let me use mortal my scripts and pots to prove I’m better”
Last edited by Arden on February 14th, 2019, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fix casting; Remove MB from staff

Arden
Posts: 1232

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#22 » February 14th, 2019, 12:53 am

As for scripts post casting change. You’re right, there will always be scripts. Pest had similar casting to what we are asking for and all the big script mages from Demise for pooped on there bc their scripts weren’t as good as a player making decisions.

Yes wall scripts will still exists, so will heal friendly etc. but there is prob a ton of footage of 2-3 known non script mages pooping on (sorry hz) the script mages using mini heal script.

I think josh has one of me and him killing Dylan and someone else 2v6 and you can see the minis being useless bc of sync dmg
Fix casting; Remove MB from staff

Josh
Posts: 605

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#23 » February 14th, 2019, 1:34 am

The Silvertiger wrote:
Josh wrote:Nah, it's not about script healing being usable, it's about creating a balance between scripters vs non-scripters. Give the non-scripters a chance. A good player on osi casting can beat a heal self script. It's about giving the non-scripter a chance, which you said "outside of dueling" or whatever, which is the only time the miniheal script will matter. My other point to you was the miniheal teammate script will be less effective in the field and will let people get away with less mistakes (aka cant run xminiheal without losing tiles). I've killed many people 1v1, but if someone holds down a miniheal self button (Im an alchy scribe mage) and I cant kill that person with just magery, simply bc they heal faster than i can do damage. The only way I can kill people (unless they arent paying attention to their hp) is by baiting them with conflags or parafield/wall/explo pot tricks, while on osi I could disrupt their gheals with lightning, I can time lightning, harm or some other spell to disrupt one of the miniheals.

Another good example I can give is when I get dismounted, people weaken/clumsy spam right? Well, normally on osi you would magic arrow, disrupt a weaken and be able to get teleport off, if timed right. Since, disrupts dont matter on this server, you cant really do that, u have to offscreen, which is hard to do on foot. There is just a lot of outplay potential with osi-casting that isn't available on demise casting.

Tl;DR osi casting gives a non-scripting pure mage the potential to kill a scripting miniheal self mage.

I was actually talking about the mini heal/scripted-heal teammate when I said people will just make a new script. Mini heal self can be beaten here by any decent mage, on current casting, you should know that. Mini heal/scripted-heal teammate will no doubt be more balanced, but as long UOS, or any other in-depth scripting program, exists on demise scripters and non-scripters will never be balanced.

I'm not against you or the scripting change when limited to fel. I even suggested it in like 2017 when they first implemented it on TC. I really believe it will make pvp better in the field and in dueling. I guess in my original reply to Dom, I was saying I don't think field pvp will ever be enjoyable again, for me. I also believe a healthy pvp community will help with gold inflation if the staff keeps on top of gold farming. I'm highly concerned about gold inflation, but that's another thread that I haven't begun yet. Still looking for sink ideas.


Yes I know a good sync dump can win vs miniheal spam, we do it all the time. Not everyone can do it perfectly. And the people who live bc of miniheal spam don’t deserve it bc it’s just a script doing it. Mini heal self cannot be beaten by any “decent mage.” That’s absurd to assume. Without strangle, mortal, conflags it’s nearly impossible to be a mage who holds down miniheal self. You cannot beat someone pure mage who holds down miniheal self, you’re simply not fast enough.

Also, you’re missing the point, the point isn’t that scripts won’t exist, it’s that scripts shouldn’t make you so significantly more powerful than someone who plays by hand that it’s nearly unbeatable.

Yes, good and great players will overcome scripts obviously that’s true but when talking about balance we shouldn’t be comparing an amazing player to a shit tier player rather we should be comparing an avg player vs avg player. An avg player who scripts will win 10/10 times vs an avg player who doesn’t on current casting. On osi casting that’s not the case because scripts are more balanced.

The Silvertiger
Posts: 3344

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#24 » February 14th, 2019, 1:59 am

Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.
Leadership doesn't look at problems and say this is why I can't do something. Leadership acknowledges that there's a problem and tries to figure out how to go around, over, under, or through the problem in order to accomplish what they set out to do.

Arden
Posts: 1232

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#25 » February 14th, 2019, 2:27 am

The Silvertiger wrote:Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.



I’m down for this, but I’d wr do this I’d like razor gone too. Razor can do everything steam can jf you’re smart. Also casting will still need a fixZ
Fix casting; Remove MB from staff

The Silvertiger
Posts: 3344

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#26 » February 14th, 2019, 2:43 am

Arden wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.



I’m down for this, but I’d wr do this I’d like razor gone too. Razor can do everything steam can jf you’re smart. Also casting will still need a fixZ

I agree kick razor too.

Razor doesn't have near the cability in an non-enhanced version no matter how smart you are. The functions just aren't there. There's no reading gumps, findtype, relative tile anything besides self, or any such overly broken thing.
Leadership doesn't look at problems and say this is why I can't do something. Leadership acknowledges that there's a problem and tries to figure out how to go around, over, under, or through the problem in order to accomplish what they set out to do.

Josh
Posts: 605

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#27 » February 14th, 2019, 2:52 am

The Silvertiger wrote:Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.

Eh i mean disable features would probably be the best solution tbh, idk if getting rid of steam would happen bc its super unpopular. But I'd be down, personally.
Also easy uo can do all this stuff and there is really no way to tell the difference.

The Silvertiger
Posts: 3344

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#28 » February 14th, 2019, 2:57 am

Josh wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.

Eh i mean disable features would probably be the best solution tbh, idk if getting rid of steam would happen bc its super unpopular. But I'd be down, personally.
Also easy uo can do all this stuff and there is really no way to tell the difference.

EUO takes careful observation, but it can be spotted. Cure mortal is pretty obvious.
Leadership doesn't look at problems and say this is why I can't do something. Leadership acknowledges that there's a problem and tries to figure out how to go around, over, under, or through the problem in order to accomplish what they set out to do.

Josh
Posts: 605

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#29 » February 14th, 2019, 3:05 am

The Silvertiger wrote:
Josh wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:Point is script kiddies will still win 7/10 times or more. Get rid of UOS and similar programs and it's all skill vs skill. That's my objective. Get rid of or limit programs so much that people have to play the game.

Eh i mean disable features would probably be the best solution tbh, idk if getting rid of steam would happen bc its super unpopular. But I'd be down, personally.
Also easy uo can do all this stuff and there is really no way to tell the difference.

EUO takes careful observation, but it can be spotted. Cure mortal is pretty obvious.

Yea, gms are known for being "carefully observant."

Arden
Posts: 1232

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post#30 » February 14th, 2019, 4:37 am

Uoassit is the only program i feel should be allowed.
Fix casting; Remove MB from staff

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